Comments on: Father Fintan

By: Dublin Opinion » Blog Archive » FINTAN O’TOOLE TELLS THE IRISH PEOPLE: “YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORATAY!”

Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:42:45 +0000

[…] Donagh’s post from earlier this week, about how Fintan O’Toole is really pissed off that we didn’t listen to him and vote […]

By: conor mccabe

conor mccabe — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:20:50 +0000

I-m 5′ 6” and voted no. I think we have the real reason behind the swing.
Heightism

By: Hugh Green

Hugh Green — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:24:23 +0000

Perhaps there is a translation loss to Habermas’s remarks and instead of ’small and obstinate people’ he meant ‘headstrong pygmy people’. Either way, I say sink the head in the fucker just in case.

By: Seán Báite

Seán Báite — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:57:32 +0000

Yeah but SOS, how are you going to measure their level of obstinacy ??
One of those arm-wrestling machines ?
I also note that you are probably the same height as Sarkozy standing on Merkel’s shoulders.
Hearing those type of phrases from the mouth of a German is a bit spooky - do they have amphibious panzers yet ?
Granted - the same clichés have been trotted out by the French press about the ‘rebel’ Irish. Sorry to retort with another well oiled national cliché.
Funny footage from laugh-a-minute RTL. Especially hilarious the very shy German Green MEP - at least she had her re-cyclable supermarket bag instead of the others with their standard issue roller cases.
Here in Europe - many of the MEPs are also on a double or triple mandate - which I always find fairly ridiculous - paid representatives at local, national and European levels. How on earth are you supposed to be effective doing 3 fulltime jobs simultaneously ? - apart from from the point of view of your bank manager

By: sonofstan

sonofstan — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:59:13 +0000

Whatever about being patronised by Fintan, I resent Habermas calling us ‘ those small, obstinate people’ in the piece from Der Spiegel you link to: I’m Irish and nearly as tall as Michael Ballack…… mind you, I voted yes, so maybe he’s right and only small Irish people voted no? if so, one of those things they have at fun fairs to show how tall you must be be to go on a particular ride could be used at polling stations next time - you must be this tall to vote…….

By: Donagh

Donagh — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:43:50 +0000

Very funny David, Kathy burns the midnight oil for the EU. I suspect that much of the comment comes from the fact that they know something awkward has to be done. How much easier it would have been if people had voted yes. There is also the realization that don’t, as you say, ‘lead and shape’ public opinion. Which is why its easy to slip into a them and us scenario. We told them what was the right thing to do and they chose to ignore us, therefore they do not deserve our respect. They got the hump.

WorldbyStorm, the idea of thinking of an electorate in the collective sense, as having a personality is completely wrong, as you say, in my view. That’s what is so startling. Different people voted for different reasons. However, there is a desire to lump everyone in together.

By: WorldbyStorm

WorldbyStorm — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:22:45 +0000

I think Donagh your point about FOT seeing the electorate as children is spot on. That said, I’m not certain we can make any assumptions good or bad about the qualities of those who voted either way. I don’t think electorates have personalities in any meaningful sense, nor am I taken with the idea of the ‘wisdom of crowds’. I think any number of factors intervened and that run on different dates it could have gone that way, or the other way or whatever. Incidentally I loved the vote in Carlow/Kilkenny. What was it? Six people or so in the end tipped it into the Yes camp.

By: David

David — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:17:47 +0000

Off topic, but funny…

Starring our own Kathy Sinnott

“A Member of the European Parliament (MEP) in Brussels earns approx. 14,700 euros per month (~£11,587), according to this RTL Report (in German with English subtitles). How much the MEPs have to work (or don’t work) for their €14,700 is the subject of this on-site RTL investigation in Brussels. The video is about MEPs who sign in on attendance lists and then disappear immediately for their weekend. RTL investigating journalists were thrown out of the EU building in Brussels during their work. ”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMtc_QJ4-E&e

By: David

David — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:16:56 +0000

The mainstream media have collectively assumed the role of the father figure in this ‘debate’ - more than usual, perhaps because the government was so slow off the mark. I don’t remember FOT ever being this overtly (despite the fact he rarely lacks self assurance) and obstinately self righteous on an issue.

It is their uncloaked assumption that our ‘leaders’ are to be trusted on all matters, not just matters of constitutional changes; despite the fact FOT himself (and any other journalist with a shred of credibility) has been at the forefront of public investigation and debate over the trustworthiness of the very same political establishment.

Essentially then, we can infer that it is not the establishment leaders, as in the elected government, FOT wants us to trust, but the unelected establishment, and with it, the Irish Times and FOT himself, as integral members. The unrestrained scolding being dished out is a reaction to the media’s, including FOT (and their establishment associates) failure to ‘lead and shape’ public opinion.

The Irish Times was of course in jubilant mood when Venezuelans voted against proposed constitutional changes, celebrating even the fact they voted against the leader and not necessarily the changes - abstention apparently partly due too to the complexity of them. Similarly, the majority of Venezuelans support the Bolivarian revolution, yet they retain the right not to be hoodwinked (if you choose to interpret the changes that way). [It should be noted too, that it may not have been possible without the injection of corporate money, much like Libertas]

There seems to be something inherently anti-democratic about the entire political establishment (more or less) and the entire ‘free press’ being at war with a) its electorate and b) it’s consumers. Evidencing perhaps the fragility of the ‘normal’ inversion of power in the democratic model, usually enjoyed by elites.

By: Donagh

Donagh — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:10:58 +0000

Once again, you’re right Seán. Damn my sloppy fingers.