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	<title>Comments on: Lobby Loitering</title>
	<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/</link>
	<description>It's a group blog. What more do you need to know?</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42755</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 17:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42755</guid>
		<description>Indeed, and you can even vote for the worst ones
http://www.eulobbyaward.org/2007/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, and you can even vote for the worst ones<br />
<a href="http://www.eulobbyaward.org/2007/" rel="nofollow">http://www.eulobbyaward.org/2007/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tomaltach</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42732</link>
		<author>Tomaltach</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42732</guid>
		<description>I would agree that they overstated their case, and your point that the policy promoted by the Israeli lobby may have suited the government anyway. I immediately thought of Ireland in Europe - if a tough measure is required, say on environment, the Irish government will be too cowardly to implement it, instead waiting for the big bad Eu guys to do it. 

Nevertheless, I remain convinced that the Israeli lobby is generously funded, well organised, and in the end, a lobby many times more powerful than mere numbers of Jewish Americans would suggest. 

But in the end they are one of many powerful lobbies - oil, motor, defence, media, and so on, together with the 'national/ethnic' ones along the lines you mention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree that they overstated their case, and your point that the policy promoted by the Israeli lobby may have suited the government anyway. I immediately thought of Ireland in Europe - if a tough measure is required, say on environment, the Irish government will be too cowardly to implement it, instead waiting for the big bad Eu guys to do it. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I remain convinced that the Israeli lobby is generously funded, well organised, and in the end, a lobby many times more powerful than mere numbers of Jewish Americans would suggest. </p>
<p>But in the end they are one of many powerful lobbies - oil, motor, defence, media, and so on, together with the &#8216;national/ethnic&#8217; ones along the lines you mention.</p>
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		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42724</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42724</guid>
		<description>Yea, the phentermine online lobby seems to have gone in to overdrive since I mentioned the Walt-Mearsheimer book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea, the phentermine online lobby seems to have gone in to overdrive since I mentioned the Walt-Mearsheimer book.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Green</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42722</link>
		<author>Hugh Green</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 14:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42722</guid>
		<description>Say, all this talk of the Israeli lobby makes me want to go looking for phentermine online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Say, all this talk of the Israeli lobby makes me want to go looking for phentermine online.</p>
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		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42708</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 12:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42708</guid>
		<description>Indeed, the reaction to the book has been so widespread, sustained and vociferous among those who consider such criticism as tantamount to anti-semitism that one would almost consider it a conspiracy...;-) -which, of course is a joke. 

I read the original article, and although it is compelling and many of its findings are no doubt true, I think they overstated the influence that such a lobby can have on people who are acting according to adtheir own deluded mixed up, ill-thought out, badly judged amoral game plan. 

As Jim Holt said at the end of his &lt;a href="http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n20/holt01_.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;It's the Oil article&lt;/a&gt; in the LRB:

"Still, there is reason to be sceptical of the picture I have drawn: it implies that a secret and highly ambitious plan turned out just the way its devisers foresaw, and that almost never happens." 

And I'd say, ditto for the idea that the Jewish lobby in the US is influencing US foreign policy. 

Its interesting though in relation to the visiting of King Abdullah to Britian. No one is suggesting that American and British Saudi's are organising themselves into a lobby and pressing the US Government and Britian to support them absolutely, no matter how ikky their domestic politics are. And yet they support them anyway, dispite the &lt;a href="http://marty-center.uchicago.edu/webforum/122006/war_as_worship.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;complications&lt;/a&gt; that this involves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, the reaction to the book has been so widespread, sustained and vociferous among those who consider such criticism as tantamount to anti-semitism that one would almost consider it a conspiracy&#8230;;-) -which, of course is a joke. </p>
<p>I read the original article, and although it is compelling and many of its findings are no doubt true, I think they overstated the influence that such a lobby can have on people who are acting according to adtheir own deluded mixed up, ill-thought out, badly judged amoral game plan. </p>
<p>As Jim Holt said at the end of his <a href="http://www.lrb.co.uk/v29/n20/holt01_.html" rel="nofollow">It&#8217;s the Oil article</a> in the LRB:</p>
<p>&#8220;Still, there is reason to be sceptical of the picture I have drawn: it implies that a secret and highly ambitious plan turned out just the way its devisers foresaw, and that almost never happens.&#8221; </p>
<p>And I&#8217;d say, ditto for the idea that the Jewish lobby in the US is influencing US foreign policy. </p>
<p>Its interesting though in relation to the visiting of King Abdullah to Britian. No one is suggesting that American and British Saudi&#8217;s are organising themselves into a lobby and pressing the US Government and Britian to support them absolutely, no matter how ikky their domestic politics are. And yet they support them anyway, dispite the <a href="http://marty-center.uchicago.edu/webforum/122006/war_as_worship.pdf" rel="nofollow">complications</a> that this involves.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomaltach</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42695</link>
		<author>Tomaltach</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/10/30/lobby-loitering/#comment-42695</guid>
		<description>I imagine this book is an elaboration of their essay in the LRB about a year ago which drew the fury of the pro-Israeli lobby in a kind of ironic self justifying way. It reminded me of the Danish Cartoon which satirized the Muslim world as being unreasonably violent. The cartoon  provoked a wave of violent protest across the muslim world which, though a bit blown up in western media, did result in several deaths and embassy burnings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I imagine this book is an elaboration of their essay in the LRB about a year ago which drew the fury of the pro-Israeli lobby in a kind of ironic self justifying way. It reminded me of the Danish Cartoon which satirized the Muslim world as being unreasonably violent. The cartoon  provoked a wave of violent protest across the muslim world which, though a bit blown up in western media, did result in several deaths and embassy burnings.</p>
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