<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.2.1" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: WHY BOTHER WITH CLASS ANALYSIS?</title>
	<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/</link>
	<description>It's a group blog. What more do you need to know?</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1</generator>

	<item>
		<title>By: Len Deighton, class and the right&#8230; &#171; The Cedar Lounge Revolution</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-37391</link>
		<author>Len Deighton, class and the right&#8230; &#171; The Cedar Lounge Revolution</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-37391</guid>
		<description>[...] of the most interesting analyses of class in contemporary society I have ever read is available at Dublin Opinion at the moment. Conor has been working through aspects of class definitions, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] of the most interesting analyses of class in contemporary society I have ever read is available at Dublin Opinion at the moment. Conor has been working through aspects of class definitions, [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Conor McCabe</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-37380</link>
		<author>Conor McCabe</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-37380</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that, sonofstan. I must try to track down a copy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that, sonofstan. I must try to track down a copy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sonofstan</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-37374</link>
		<author>sonofstan</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:08:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-37374</guid>
		<description>Veering wildly off the discussion for a minute, but i urge anyone who can to have a look at the lead story in the Irish Mail on Sunday today (they don't appear to have a separate web identity from their 'mainland' parent, so i can't post it here) - under a headline something like 'Middle-classes fear Invasion', it discusses how councils 'up and down the country' are buying up properties in 'nice areas' to house 'problem' families - 'why should they get it for free, when we have to pay for it?' bemoans A. Resident.

Looked at a bit more closely the kernel of the story appears to centre around Limerick City Council buying up semi-ds in order to temporarily house residents of Moyross as their own homes are refurbished; the single most outrageous sentence categorises all these families as 'problem families' - recalling John Copper Clarke's great line from Beasley St about 'their only problem (being )they're not someone else'........ seriously, have a look. The classs war goes overground from the enemy side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Veering wildly off the discussion for a minute, but i urge anyone who can to have a look at the lead story in the Irish Mail on Sunday today (they don&#8217;t appear to have a separate web identity from their &#8216;mainland&#8217; parent, so i can&#8217;t post it here) - under a headline something like &#8216;Middle-classes fear Invasion&#8217;, it discusses how councils &#8216;up and down the country&#8217; are buying up properties in &#8216;nice areas&#8217; to house &#8216;problem&#8217; families - &#8216;why should they get it for free, when we have to pay for it?&#8217; bemoans A. Resident.</p>
<p>Looked at a bit more closely the kernel of the story appears to centre around Limerick City Council buying up semi-ds in order to temporarily house residents of Moyross as their own homes are refurbished; the single most outrageous sentence categorises all these families as &#8216;problem families&#8217; - recalling John Copper Clarke&#8217;s great line from Beasley St about &#8216;their only problem (being )they&#8217;re not someone else&#8217;&#8230;&#8230;.. seriously, have a look. The classs war goes overground from the enemy side.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tomaltach</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36586</link>
		<author>Tomaltach</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36586</guid>
		<description>Regarding the middle manager. His power is greater than his line staff, but only within his organisation. He has the power to chose who should be laid off for example in the event of a restructure. He has the power to award bonuses and salary rises. The power to bat for others on his team. And so on.   But this hardly translates into power when he walks out the door at 5pm.

Did I say 5pm. I mean 10pm when he goes home to log on again with his laptop to reply to that fucker in San Fran that was asking about tomorrow's delivery. 

He will in general toe the line. For he or she knows that his/her own bonus and chances of getting to the next level depend on it. Even if she gets to the next level, say a head of business unit. Power in society is still not advanced all that much. The son of a TD who pulls his wire all day would still have far more power. Or the daughter of the Master of the local hospital. 

I'm struggling here to delineate where the line lies between real power and merely, low level corporate power. 

I suppose if our friend becomes VP or CEO of a reasonable size company and starts to play golf (or otherwise network) with slightly more powerful CEOs then that would constitute real power. Entering the clique so to speak. Arrivé!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the middle manager. His power is greater than his line staff, but only within his organisation. He has the power to chose who should be laid off for example in the event of a restructure. He has the power to award bonuses and salary rises. The power to bat for others on his team. And so on.   But this hardly translates into power when he walks out the door at 5pm.</p>
<p>Did I say 5pm. I mean 10pm when he goes home to log on again with his laptop to reply to that fucker in San Fran that was asking about tomorrow&#8217;s delivery. </p>
<p>He will in general toe the line. For he or she knows that his/her own bonus and chances of getting to the next level depend on it. Even if she gets to the next level, say a head of business unit. Power in society is still not advanced all that much. The son of a TD who pulls his wire all day would still have far more power. Or the daughter of the Master of the local hospital. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m struggling here to delineate where the line lies between real power and merely, low level corporate power. </p>
<p>I suppose if our friend becomes VP or CEO of a reasonable size company and starts to play golf (or otherwise network) with slightly more powerful CEOs then that would constitute real power. Entering the clique so to speak. Arrivé!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Conor McCabe</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36581</link>
		<author>Conor McCabe</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36581</guid>
		<description>That was a bit teacher-ish of me. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was a bit teacher-ish of me. Sorry.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hugh Green</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36573</link>
		<author>Hugh Green</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36573</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In terms of power, a middle manager may feel sympathy for his line-workers, but is s/he going to back them in a pay rise, or is s/he more likely to do h/er job and support the company line.&lt;/i&gt;

Ok, I feel bad for talking too much about beer. In terms of power, once you get into the non-unionised service sector jobs, a middle manager is not likely to hold that much more power than any person whom he manages. 

That is, he/she has little, if any power to side with his lesser-paid companions when threatened with the prospect of his job -and those of the rest of his workplace- heading south. That is, he's as fearful as the rest of 'em. Sure, he can do a Spartacus, but, he thinks, it won't do any good, because real power interests -in many cases, real power is not concentrated in Ireland, a consideration your analysis appears to omit- will see to it that either a) he is replaced with someone more compliant, since most of these roles are easily replaceable; b) the generalised demands for better conditions get met eventually with a decision to accelerate the transfer of his production to China, India, Eastern Europe, or wherever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In terms of power, a middle manager may feel sympathy for his line-workers, but is s/he going to back them in a pay rise, or is s/he more likely to do h/er job and support the company line.</i></p>
<p>Ok, I feel bad for talking too much about beer. In terms of power, once you get into the non-unionised service sector jobs, a middle manager is not likely to hold that much more power than any person whom he manages. </p>
<p>That is, he/she has little, if any power to side with his lesser-paid companions when threatened with the prospect of his job -and those of the rest of his workplace- heading south. That is, he&#8217;s as fearful as the rest of &#8216;em. Sure, he can do a Spartacus, but, he thinks, it won&#8217;t do any good, because real power interests -in many cases, real power is not concentrated in Ireland, a consideration your analysis appears to omit- will see to it that either a) he is replaced with someone more compliant, since most of these roles are easily replaceable; b) the generalised demands for better conditions get met eventually with a decision to accelerate the transfer of his production to China, India, Eastern Europe, or wherever.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Conor McCabe</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36567</link>
		<author>Conor McCabe</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 13:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36567</guid>
		<description>Oh just great. I start talking about class, and it ends up in the pub. All I did was use an image from Prosperity, and the entire discussion goes on the batter. 

"Having watched the last episode tonight i still think it shouldn’t be dismissed on the basis of a materialist analysis alone."

Donal, again, I'm not dismissing Prosperity because of some aesthetic reading of the drama, I'm highlighting it because it falls with an historical lineage of Irish portrayals of the poor / working class - a lineage that goes back over a hundred years. either way, Prosperity was peripheral to my post, as was that fucking breakfast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh just great. I start talking about class, and it ends up in the pub. All I did was use an image from Prosperity, and the entire discussion goes on the batter. </p>
<p>&#8220;Having watched the last episode tonight i still think it shouldn’t be dismissed on the basis of a materialist analysis alone.&#8221;</p>
<p>Donal, again, I&#8217;m not dismissing Prosperity because of some aesthetic reading of the drama, I&#8217;m highlighting it because it falls with an historical lineage of Irish portrayals of the poor / working class - a lineage that goes back over a hundred years. either way, Prosperity was peripheral to my post, as was that fucking breakfast.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36559</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 12:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36559</guid>
		<description>Indeed, maybe he was being a big girl, but I wouldn't have thought that the simple act of eating your dinner was an indication of machismo. Although I suppose generations of parents have traditionally insisted that their male children 'eat up all their greens' so that they can 'grow up to be a big man'. 

Yes, Galway's Berlin years have nothing on Bowie and Eno. But on reflection, perhaps a beer or three before a performance might have put a bit of zest into his otherwise soporific flute-playing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, maybe he was being a big girl, but I wouldn&#8217;t have thought that the simple act of eating your dinner was an indication of machismo. Although I suppose generations of parents have traditionally insisted that their male children &#8216;eat up all their greens&#8217; so that they can &#8216;grow up to be a big man&#8217;. </p>
<p>Yes, Galway&#8217;s Berlin years have nothing on Bowie and Eno. But on reflection, perhaps a beer or three before a performance might have put a bit of zest into his otherwise soporific flute-playing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hugh Green</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36551</link>
		<author>Hugh Green</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 11:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36551</guid>
		<description>Ha, I have seen Leaving Las Vegas, and I thought Nicholas Cage's character was a BIG GIRL for not being able to hold down a bit of food. 

I heard that Nicholas Cage story too. My favourite celebrity 'alcoholic' story was working class hero James Galway. Some years back on TV he made startling revelations about how his drinking nearly ruined his life. He recalled the mad times with the Berlin Phil, where he could end up drinking two, even three pints of beer a night. Crazy bastard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha, I have seen Leaving Las Vegas, and I thought Nicholas Cage&#8217;s character was a BIG GIRL for not being able to hold down a bit of food. </p>
<p>I heard that Nicholas Cage story too. My favourite celebrity &#8216;alcoholic&#8217; story was working class hero James Galway. Some years back on TV he made startling revelations about how his drinking nearly ruined his life. He recalled the mad times with the Berlin Phil, where he could end up drinking two, even three pints of beer a night. Crazy bastard.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Donagh</title>
		<link>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36528</link>
		<author>Donagh</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2007 08:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://dublinopinion.com/2007/09/22/why-bother-with-class-analysis/#comment-36528</guid>
		<description>Hugh, you mustn't have seen Leaving Las Vegas. Like you, the prostitute Sera thought that all Ben the alcoholic screenwriter played by N.Cage needed was a good feed to sober him up. 'You haven't eaten for days', she squeeled, as Ben, with red rimmed and swollen eyes, looked down at the food on his plate. He then cleared the table with one of those dramatic Hollywood arm sweeps and reached for the half finished bottle of vodka. 

The guys stomach was in no shape for food. 

Now maybe the character in Prosperity wasn't as far gone. On a side note I remember hearing that in order to reherse for his part Nicholas Cage decided he needed to go somewhere where a lot of drinking gets done. So he got on a plane to Dublin. However, Nicholas Cage is kind of recognizable and there wouldn't be much change of mixing comfortably with the regulars in Grogans of a saturday night. So instead he sat in his hotel room and ordered up booze from room service. Or so I heard. It's probably just another apocryphal tale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hugh, you mustn&#8217;t have seen Leaving Las Vegas. Like you, the prostitute Sera thought that all Ben the alcoholic screenwriter played by N.Cage needed was a good feed to sober him up. &#8216;You haven&#8217;t eaten for days&#8217;, she squeeled, as Ben, with red rimmed and swollen eyes, looked down at the food on his plate. He then cleared the table with one of those dramatic Hollywood arm sweeps and reached for the half finished bottle of vodka. </p>
<p>The guys stomach was in no shape for food. </p>
<p>Now maybe the character in Prosperity wasn&#8217;t as far gone. On a side note I remember hearing that in order to reherse for his part Nicholas Cage decided he needed to go somewhere where a lot of drinking gets done. So he got on a plane to Dublin. However, Nicholas Cage is kind of recognizable and there wouldn&#8217;t be much change of mixing comfortably with the regulars in Grogans of a saturday night. So instead he sat in his hotel room and ordered up booze from room service. Or so I heard. It&#8217;s probably just another apocryphal tale.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

