Comments on: The Art of Perpetual Motion: Steorn Live London Demo a Waste of Energy? http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/ It's a group blog. What more do you need to know? Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:27:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: Donagh http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-72111 Donagh Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:08:28 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-72111 Thanks Aodh, I'm delighted with this comment. An insult from you is a treat indeed. And I believe reaction to it has been huge. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xRk5ea5pA5Y&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xRk5ea5pA5Y&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Thanks Aodh, I’m delighted with this comment. An insult from you is a treat indeed.

And I believe reaction to it has been huge.

]]> By: Aodh http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-72110 Aodh Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:29:16 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-72110 All you snide buffoons are in for a rude awakening. I was at teh final Demo in Dublin on Saturday and a private session on Sunday and was able to turn the device in my hands. it is a remarkable piece of engineering. Hats off to the engineers of Steorn. Tomorrow, Wed Feb 4th, the first of the scientists come to test the rig with their own equipment. Of course none of this is covered by so-called "Dublin Opinion" . As Dubliner my opinion of this vile snideness of yours is making me sick. Get off your cowardly asses and get down to the waterways centre! But I forget - this demo is for intelligent engineers and developers. Not air-head hacks like you. All you snide buffoons are in for a rude awakening. I was at teh final Demo in Dublin on Saturday and a private session on Sunday and was able to turn the device in my hands. it is a remarkable piece of engineering. Hats off to the engineers of Steorn. Tomorrow, Wed Feb 4th, the first of the scientists come to test the rig with their own equipment. Of course none of this is covered by so-called “Dublin Opinion” . As Dubliner my opinion of this vile snideness of yours is making me sick. Get off your cowardly asses and get down to the waterways centre! But I forget - this demo is for intelligent engineers and developers. Not air-head hacks like you.

]]> By: Donagh http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-26629 Donagh Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:26:22 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-26629 Nice animation Paul and it shows us what the machine is supposed to look like, especially as no one got to see it working. As Mr Tagomi said, its a pity that it didn't. If only internet perpetuated skepticism and withering distain could be harnessed as an energy source... Nice animation Paul and it shows us what the machine is supposed to look like, especially as no one got to see it working. As Mr Tagomi said, its a pity that it didn’t. If only internet perpetuated skepticism and withering distain could be harnessed as an energy source…

]]> By: Paul http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-26415 Paul Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:15:33 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-26415 I've made an animation of the orbo, its a nice little machine but it ain't gonna work. http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=np9lLom16Nk I’ve made an animation of the orbo, its a nice little machine but it ain’t gonna work.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=np9lLom16Nk

]]> By: Donagh http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-26006 Donagh Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:01:43 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-26006 <i>To be fair to Steorn, they claim that they spent three years trying to get reputable scientists to test their technology and go public in a peer-reviewed journal about it, but could get nobody to agree to do so. </i> I feel like one of those actors who do toothpaste ads, as they always begin them by saying 'I'm not a dentist, but'. Well, I'm not a scientist but the above comment would suggest to me that there's the answer to all this. If they couldn't get verification from scientists in a peer review situation why did they pursue it. Oh, that's right, scientists are very sniffy about looking at technology that challenges the laws of thermodynamics. Its just them and their recalcitrant ways. Sorry if this sounds sarcastic, and I'm aware that science is not always beyond reproach. Scouring the global to get a bunch of scientists using an ad in a international distributed magazine, when you couldn't find them using the normal channels that every other scientist or lab has to use doesn't fill me with confidence. <i>God, wouldn’t it be great if they really had something. We’d be in space in force within a few years.</i> Looking for another planet to colonize :) <i>Gore is a strange man. I really wish he had been president on Sept 11. We’d be living in a far different world today.</i> That Al Gore is coming across as some sort of folk hero shows how fucked up the world has become. To be fair to Steorn, they claim that they spent three years trying to get reputable scientists to test their technology and go public in a peer-reviewed journal about it, but could get nobody to agree to do so.
I feel like one of those actors who do toothpaste ads, as they always begin them by saying ‘I’m not a dentist, but’. Well, I’m not a scientist but the above comment would suggest to me that there’s the answer to all this. If they couldn’t get verification from scientists in a peer review situation why did they pursue it. Oh, that’s right, scientists are very sniffy about looking at technology that challenges the laws of thermodynamics. Its just them and their recalcitrant ways. Sorry if this sounds sarcastic, and I’m aware that science is not always beyond reproach.

Scouring the global to get a bunch of scientists using an ad in a international distributed magazine, when you couldn’t find them using the normal channels that every other scientist or lab has to use doesn’t fill me with confidence.

God, wouldn’t it be great if they really had something. We’d be in space in force within a few years. Looking for another planet to colonize :)
Gore is a strange man. I really wish he had been president on Sept 11. We’d be living in a far different world today.
That Al Gore is coming across as some sort of folk hero shows how fucked up the world has become.

]]> By: Mr Tagomi http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25828 Mr Tagomi Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:40:06 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25828 To be fair to Steorn, they claim that they spent three years trying to get reputable scientists to test their technology and go public in a peer-reviewed journal about it, but could get nobody to agree to do so. Their story is that going public was a last resort. On the face of it the tactic worked, because they have a panel of scientists now committed to going public with their findings. God, wouldn't it be great if they really had something. We'd be in space in force within a few years. Economic expansion would be hugely boosted, with many of the drawbacks eliminated. Gore is a strange man. I really wish he had been president on Sept 11. We'd be living in a far different world today. But if Live Earth is his idea of making a difference, I wish he would just disappear. To be fair to Steorn, they claim that they spent three years trying to get reputable scientists to test their technology and go public in a peer-reviewed journal about it, but could get nobody to agree to do so. Their story is that going public was a last resort. On the face of it the tactic worked, because they have a panel of scientists now committed to going public with their findings.

God, wouldn’t it be great if they really had something. We’d be in space in force within a few years. Economic expansion would be hugely boosted, with many of the drawbacks eliminated.

Gore is a strange man. I really wish he had been president on Sept 11. We’d be living in a far different world today. But if Live Earth is his idea of making a difference, I wish he would just disappear.

]]> By: Donagh http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25423 Donagh Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:01:59 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25423 Some very good points here. I think the snideness - and my piece does have the tone of pre-emptive ridicule although masked slightly by a vague ‘let wait and see’ attitude – comes from people trying to protect themselves against getting fooled. Steorn have been cursed by this invention, one which they happened upon while recycling close circuit cameras, I understand. This is because it involves the holy grail of science. They could have ignored it, which is unlikely considering that they are a commercial company, or they could have tried to get a paper published in a respected scientific journal. They didn’t. Instead, they contacted the media. This is a similar case to the scientist who believed, very sincerely, that sun spots were responsible for global warming. He did his research, he published his paper, and it got shot down through peer review. However, rather then going back to the lab and investigating the matter further, he instead contacted journalists. In the Irish Times, no less, I read a feature article* (not a review) about the book he published last year with a journalist who has been writing very suspect stuff about the ‘real’ causes of global warming, as propagated in that documentary The Great Global Warming Scandal. On the opposite page to the feature The Irish Times decided to publish a highly accredited Irish scientist’s response. The net result of this of course, is that the Irish Times were getting caught up in the lie, ‘well there are two sides to every story’. When it comes to global warming there’s not, just as there’s not two sides to the argument about whether the Holocaust happened or not. I hope Steorn’s invention works, who wouldn’t? But ultimately I think the snideness on the Net and elsewhere comes from the fact that this thing has been swallowed unquestioningly by the media, so they feel there's a need to counter balance it. Steorn issued press releases to all the media outlets and they were repeated without question. RTE provided coverage, as did loads of other outlets. However, as Ben Goldacre said in his Bad Science column in the Guardian on Saturday, there was complete silence from the various media outlets when this thing didn’t work. It wasn’t reported at all, because it wasn’t in their interests to do so. On the exclusively geek interest of Global warming, you’re exactly right. Joe Public merely considers it an inconvenience, no matter how true it may turn out to be. And I 110% agree with you about the Live Earth thing. The world would have been a far far better place without it. Let’s hope that Al Gore doesn’t seek nomination to be US President, because if he gets in he’d probably make them an annual event. Oh Lord, will no one think of the children? Thanks for the excellent comment Mr. Tagomi *It was more like an advertorial than feature article to be honest. Some very good points here. I think the snideness - and my piece does have the tone of pre-emptive ridicule although masked slightly by a vague ‘let wait and see’ attitude – comes from people trying to protect themselves against getting fooled.

Steorn have been cursed by this invention, one which they happened upon while recycling close circuit cameras, I understand. This is because it involves the holy grail of science. They could have ignored it, which is unlikely considering that they are a commercial company, or they could have tried to get a paper published in a respected scientific journal. They didn’t. Instead, they contacted the media.

This is a similar case to the scientist who believed, very sincerely, that sun spots were responsible for global warming. He did his research, he published his paper, and it got shot down through peer review. However, rather then going back to the lab and investigating the matter further, he instead contacted journalists.
In the Irish Times, no less, I read a feature article* (not a review) about the book he published last year with a journalist who has been writing very suspect stuff about the ‘real’ causes of global warming, as propagated in that documentary The Great Global Warming Scandal.

On the opposite page to the feature The Irish Times decided to publish a highly accredited Irish scientist’s response. The net result of this of course, is that the Irish Times were getting caught up in the lie, ‘well there are two sides to every story’. When it comes to global warming there’s not, just as there’s not two sides to the argument about whether the Holocaust happened or not.

I hope Steorn’s invention works, who wouldn’t? But ultimately I think the snideness on the Net and elsewhere comes from the fact that this thing has been swallowed unquestioningly by the media, so they feel there’s a need to counter balance it.

Steorn issued press releases to all the media outlets and they were repeated without question. RTE provided coverage, as did loads of other outlets. However, as Ben Goldacre said in his Bad Science column in the Guardian on Saturday, there was complete silence from the various media outlets when this thing didn’t work. It wasn’t reported at all, because it wasn’t in their interests to do so.

On the exclusively geek interest of Global warming, you’re exactly right. Joe Public merely considers it an inconvenience, no matter how true it may turn out to be. And I 110% agree with you about the Live Earth thing. The world would have been a far far better place without it.

Let’s hope that Al Gore doesn’t seek nomination to be US President, because if he gets in he’d probably make them an annual event. Oh Lord, will no one think of the children?

Thanks for the excellent comment Mr. Tagomi

*It was more like an advertorial than feature article to be honest.

]]> By: Mr Tagomi http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25420 Mr Tagomi Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:53:15 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25420 I'm sceptical too. However, I think it's pretty facile to ridicule them without checking out their bona fides. I'm not saying you are doing that, Donagh, but for example the bit you quote from Wikipaedia smacks of empty snideness to me. To paraphrase The Simpsons, I think cynicism is something dullards use when they want to sound clever. I've been checking Steorn's website every now and again over the past year, and according to themselves there is a confidential verification process going on. From what I've read I'm pretty sure they are neither scamsters nor hoaxers. That leads to me to two possible conclusions: they really have made a huge discovery, or they are deluding themselves. They seem dead certain they have a working mechanism, but do not seek to explain how it works. If it does work, I strongly suspect that it does not violate Conservation of Energy to do so. If it does not work, this will go down as one of the most self-destructive examples of incompetence in the history of technological development. On the subject of the world's energy crisis, I am 99.999% certain we will devastate the globe unless some sort of huge technological breakthrough is made. Joe Public could not give a rat's ass about environmental science, and never will. Worrying about global warming etc is for nerds. And things like Live Earth certainly do not help the cause of making him care. I am a worried citizen of Earth, but Live Earth made me inclined to leave the fridge door open just to spite the posturing windbags. I’m sceptical too. However, I think it’s pretty facile to ridicule them without checking out their bona fides. I’m not saying you are doing that, Donagh, but for example the bit you quote from Wikipaedia smacks of empty snideness to me. To paraphrase The Simpsons, I think cynicism is something dullards use when they want to sound clever.
I’ve been checking Steorn’s website every now and again over the past year, and according to themselves there is a confidential verification process going on. From what I’ve read I’m pretty sure they are neither scamsters nor hoaxers. That leads to me to two possible conclusions: they really have made a huge discovery, or they are deluding themselves.
They seem dead certain they have a working mechanism, but do not seek to explain how it works. If it does work, I strongly suspect that it does not violate Conservation of Energy to do so. If it does not work, this will go down as one of the most self-destructive examples of incompetence in the history of technological development.
On the subject of the world’s energy crisis, I am 99.999% certain we will devastate the globe unless some sort of huge technological breakthrough is made. Joe Public could not give a rat’s ass about environmental science, and never will. Worrying about global warming etc is for nerds.
And things like Live Earth certainly do not help the cause of making him care. I am a worried citizen of Earth, but Live Earth made me inclined to leave the fridge door open just to spite the posturing windbags.

]]> By: Donagh http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25410 Donagh Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:05:33 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25410 I’m not a scientist but I think that in science sincere belief doesn't generally carry much weight. For example, how confident would an astronaut be if, when he asking about his chances of returning safely after a trip to the moon was told by a NASA engineer that it was his sincere belief that they were pretty good? Certainly, we should strive as much as possible to find alternative forms of energy, and they are there. But I also believe that there is no quick fix solution and that a substantial part of how we address this issue has to do with reducing energy consumption and energy waste. It’s a difficult and complex problem, which will require many different complex and multifaceted solutions. There seems to be no doubting the sincerity of Steorn. However, a huge element of this story seems to be tied up in publicity - their Economist ad, this display in the Art Gallery – and very little with an attempt to prove in a verifiable way that this technology works. In fact, all we have since it was first mooted back in August is their word. So, as a skeptic, I refuse to suspend my disbelief. I’m not a scientist but I think that in science sincere belief doesn’t generally carry much weight. For example, how confident would an astronaut be if, when he asking about his chances of returning safely after a trip to the moon was told by a NASA engineer that it was his sincere belief that they were pretty good? Certainly, we should strive as much as possible to find alternative forms of energy, and they are there. But I also believe that there is no quick fix solution and that a substantial part of how we address this issue has to do with reducing energy consumption and energy waste. It’s a difficult and complex problem, which will require many different complex and multifaceted solutions.

There seems to be no doubting the sincerity of Steorn. However, a huge element of this story seems to be tied up in publicity - their Economist ad, this display in the Art Gallery – and very little with an attempt to prove in a verifiable way that this technology works. In fact, all we have since it was first mooted back in August is their word. So, as a skeptic, I refuse to suspend my disbelief.

]]> By: Mr Tagomi http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25404 Mr Tagomi Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:38:13 +0000 http://dublinopinion.com/2007/07/05/the-art-of-perpetual-motion-steorn-live-london-demo-a-waste-of-energy/#comment-25404 I don't see much point in ridiculing Steorn. They seem to sincerely believe they have found something big, and on the off-chance that they are right, it would be nice not to have been one of the naysayers. I don’t see much point in ridiculing Steorn. They seem to sincerely believe they have found something big, and on the off-chance that they are right, it would be nice not to have been one of the naysayers.

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